Welcome to the Leader Unlocked Podcast! I'm your host, Paige Buan, and today we have a special guest who is redefining success and blazing her own trail in the industry. Join us as we sit down with Denise Leynes, the Operations Manager at Equus Software. In this episode, Denise shares her journey from studying psychology to pursuing a career in IT, highlighting the importance of continuous learning and authenticity in leadership. Get ready to be inspired and gain valuable insights from Denise's remarkable story. Let's dive in!
Paige Buan
Welcome to the Leader Unlock Podcast. Denise, thank you so much for joining us today.
Denise Leynes
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you and talk about the topic for today.
Paige Buan
We've had a couple of episodes here on Leader Unlocked, and something that's really being highlighted right now is the fact that the journey or the path to success is not always a straight line. That's what we've learned from so many guests that we've had so far. A lot of them have pursued careers that are not exactly on a straight path from the degree that they took in college. And that's not a bad thing. That's actually good, showing flexibility. It's really inspiring to hear how different people have pivoted or made changes in their lives.
I'm very curious to know, you have a degree in psychology. What led you to pursue a career in IT despite having a degree in psychology?
Denise Leynes
I think you're talking to the right person about, you know, this full career pivot and just exploring new things.
So currently, I work for an IT company, a software company, and I'm an operations manager. And before that, I was part of a Korean English company wherein I was a teacher, a team lead, then eventually an operations manager, and I stayed there for five years.
And one of my best friends in college, she said, "Denise, it's time. We're growing our team in the Philippines. I invite you to join us. It's very different. It's very exciting." And at that time, in my career, I was already reporting to the owner of the company in my previous job, and I said, "Well, I need to learn new things, right? Like I need to be flexible. I need to try it out while I was still young." So at that time, I was already reporting to the owner of the company. And I thought, it's time for me to start learning new things while I was still young. And I said, "Yes,” obviously. I feel like an expert. I can help grow the team. I can recruit. I can find the right people. I can set up an office.
And things were going well until I realized that joining Equus also requires me to do configuration and understand IT and do business consulting, which I didn't have any experience on before. And it was a struggle. Initially, it sounded fun, like a new adventure. “This is a start for me.” But eventually, it made me realize that, “Hey, I'm really not equipped for this.”
So when people think about IT, they think about coding, something very complex, something very technical. But 50% of it is actually consulting, talking to your clients, building relationships, documentation. And I think that's where I thrive. But the other half of it was a struggle for the first, at least, two years of my career there. So there were a lot of late nights figuring things out. But I was very lucky because in my company right now, we're very collaborative. I can ask anyone, and we have a lot of tools. But I still do encourage people to try it.
Paige Buan
That's awesome, the shift from psychology to IT- And yeah, it does sound like there's more to it than just computers and anything tech-related. I remember before, if somebody wanted to go into IT, they would have to take the IT course or computer science course. Did you have any skills or knowledge from your degree that was valuable in your IT career?
Denise Leynes
It's more of the people skills that I was able to use because, obviously, I have to work with clients. I have to ask them what are their requirements, what are the business processes before we even convert that to our software, to the system. So those things are important. And also, one of the things that I've been very good at, even at the start of my career, before Equus, was just being eager to learn new things.
So obviously, in the IT and tech industry, there's always a new feature, always something new to learn, always something new that you need to roll out. And if you are not eager—and I want to put emphasis on eager and not willing, because there are two different things—like complying and being genuinely interested. You have to be eager to learn new things because there's always something new, otherwise your skills will be outdated.
Paige Buan
Right. Especially now with technology and all the advancements in that field. But I love that you highlighted the necessary skills and qualities to succeed in the IT industry. It's not just limited to that, but the people skills, eagerness to learn new things, because that's not just limited om the IT space or any space, really.
Yes, you've adapted to the fast-paced and constant-evolving nature of this industry. What strategies have you used to stay up to date with the latest trends?
Denise Leynes
So, I think for me, it's very easy because at Equus, we have innovation days wherein we're very much encouraged to just think about different things, different processes, product improvements as well that we can present to the entire company and potentially we can roll that out. And aside from that, we're all encouraged to take courses from time to time. We have our internal tool that also helps us. And of course, we have LinkedIn where you can see a lot of interactions from different people, new trends, new thoughts. And I tend to not just read them, I tend to jump in, join the conversation, and try to learn and explore about those things as well.
Paige Buan
We're highlighting the fact that continuous learning is so important right now. Learning does not stop. And I love that your company encourages continuous learning through your innovation days.
What about you? Why do you believe that it's important to continually upskill and pursue learning?
Denise Leynes
So, I'll give you an example. In 2020, I was on my way back home to the Philippines. I was in the US for the last business trip that I had before the pandemic. And at that time, I was talking to our leaders, and they were telling me that I will be transitioning to a different role, which is Operations Management again. So I found myself in the same role for this new company after a few years. And I knew that I had the skills to do it because I did it before. But at the same time, I remember being worried at the airport because flights were being canceled. There was this rumor at that time about this sickness, this virus that’s spreading in Asia, and I think no one was ever prepared to lead a team during the pandemic, right?
I didn't even think we have a very strong culture of working from home as Filipinos. So that's what triggered it. In the beginning, I started getting ideas from other leaders. So these companies are doing this. And I started posting my ideas as well because we're all learning at this point. So it wasn't really very formal, no certifications, nothing, but it's more of thought sharing. Because when people think about education, when people think about studying, it sounds all very structured. Like there's a certificate, a diploma, you have to pay this, you have to spend one year doing something. But it doesn't have to be like that.
Learning can happen when you're having a conversation, sort of what we're having right now, and hopefully, people who are listening. It all started from that. So eventually, I started looking around as well, and I realized there are so many different learning opportunities that we have as Filipinos. So I'm not sure if you're familiar, Paige, but there is a government program called ETEEAP, which allows people who studied a different degree in college and who are doing different things.
So, for example, if you're in IT and you ended up being a teacher, you can take that program, study for one year, and you will have a diploma after that. So that's one of the things that I learned. And there's also the Center for Continuing Education in the Philippines, where you can study every weekend, you can study it online. It really depends on the commitment that you have. So it's all about access and having those opportunities available.
Paige Buan
Right. Thank you for mentioning ETEEAP. This is actually the first time I've heard of it. So it's good that we're having a lot of these resources available to us now.
Just to make sure I got it right, you started this path to learning more during the pandemic.
Denise Leynes
Definitely, yes.
Paige Buan
Awesome. Some people got into plants: me. And of course, yeah, learning still. But I think the pandemic was like a wake-up call for a lot of people on what really matters. And I love that there's a shift for continuous learning now more than ever.
Are there any specific benefits that you're seeing from investing in your own learning and development, both personally and professionally?
Denise Leynes
Well, it's not just learning about concepts and applying them, because I recently just completed my postgraduate. So obviously, I'm part of IT. You know, we have a lot of projects, and I just wanted to learn more about how it's done. Because in my projects in the past, sometimes, I'm not so lucky to get a project manager, and I had to do everything on my own based on what I understand. So that's an obvious advantage. That's an obvious benefit that you can apply what you've learned during the weekend to your work there on a Monday.
But also, most importantly, is when you're going through this and studying different concepts and different things. You learn more about yourself. Like, is this really something that you want to pursue in the future? This sounds very complicated, or I really don't like math, or you know, I want to focus on this instead of that.
So it's very eye-opening for me. Like a lot of us, we tend to just do our jobs and not really understand what we want to do in the future. But when you study, you kind of realize that this is an important aspect, and I want to focus on this.
Paige Buan
I've also realized this quite recently. We're so laser-focused on what we're doing and what relates to that, that we don't realize that we box ourselves in and we've been creating the walls that limit ourselves from growing further.
So I love that you shared that. Project management. Do you recommend that for other people too? Is that something that you found really valuable? I'm assuming that you've taken a lot of courses.
Denise Leynes
Absolutely. I mean, when I took that course, I think the only investment is just watching videos on weekdays, a maximum of one hour, two hours every day, and every Saturday you meet with your professors, with your classmates as well. And it's not just IT that would use project management. It's anything and everything to do with projects. So if you're managing an event, a wedding, even something personal, I think that's something that you can study and invest in. And the time investment isn't so bad. And after six months, you're done with the course. So I definitely recommend it.
Paige Buan
Awesome. How do you decide which areas or skills you need to focus on when you're pursuing learning opportunities? And what are the factors that you take into account when you are making these decisions?
Denise Leynes
So, I really like that we're doing this actually because I feel like I have so much to share about different opportunities. It's all about access when it comes to learning, right?
So initially, what I thought was, “I'll just do this thing. It's related to my work. You know, I don't have to commute two hours a day. I have this time, let me invest it by learning and attending an online class.” And it will eventually lead you to different opportunities and different courses.
So for me, I started with certifications, CPHR and GMST, which are more related to HR, very useful in my career, very useful in my day-to-day job.
And then eventually, I realized that, “Hey, you know what, what I really want to do is be able to give back to the community.” And the way to do that is through education as well. So eventually, I enrolled in a coaching development program. And I am planning to take the ICF certification for that. And currently, we talk about learning as well. We just don't do that by attending classes, watching videos, or doing homeworks. I do believe that we learn by both need to do other people.
And right now, I am a current volunteer mentor for WEDO GLOBAL. So WEDO GLOBAL is a nonprofit organization wherein they focus on women who are rising stars in Southeast Asia. So you get to mentor 2 per cycle, and that's where I practice my coaching and mentoring skills. And also, that's where I learn from my mentees because they're not necessarily in the Philippines, and they have different cultures and they have different needs. And that really helps me develop as a person.
Paige Buan
That's amazing. I'm so excited for you doing a lot of things. You're focused on your continuous learning. You are doing what you are learning. You also have time for coaching and mentoring, volunteer work.
How do you balance the demands of the career with your time and your energy?
Denise Leynes
It's all about taking it slow. Like, obviously, you know, it's been three years since the pandemic happened. And I would just focus on one thing, and that will evolve into another thing. And I don't recommend that for everyone. It really depends on how you would want to spend your time.
But I am also an advocate for taking wellness very seriously. So if you need to take a break in the middle of your course, that's absolutely fine. I made sure that those courses can actually accommodate that need because obviously, we have different priorities. And sometimes it's busier at work than usual. So it's all about that. And it's all about thinking about your Ikigai, what do you really want to do? What is your purpose?
Paige Buan
I love that, the Ikigai. A lot of people still struggle to find the right balance between a lot of that. And that's part of what makes this journey very exciting. You hear a lot of these stories, and I thank you for sharing yours because who knows who might hear it and figure some stuff out too, right?
I'm curious to know, it’s a need now, to have the growth mindset in driving change and advancements. Let's talk about that further. How important is it to have a growth mindset?
Denise Leynes
You know, for me, it's all about how you envision yourself in the future. Do you want to be the same person?
And I think most of the time, the answer is not really. There are certain things in our lives that we want to hold on to, like our values. But at the same time, as we constantly get involved, we want to be better as well. So education is part of that. It doesn't have to be structured. It doesn't have to be formal, but just having that growth mindset of knowing what you can do better and having that awareness of what are the possibilities for you. I think it's very important because otherwise, like myself, in my first job, I stayed there for five years, and I know that there's nothing else to learn. It's hard to keep motivated.
So in any case, think about your motivations. Think about why you are doing this and why you have this growth mindset. Is it for you? That's good. Is it for someone else? You're the community? That's also good. But it's very seldom that we hear people say that they're happy and want to be like this forever.
Paige Buan
Right. That's true. A lot of people would settle into some kind of flow that they're comfortable. They don't want to leave their comfort zone.
Let's talk about leadership cultivating your career. I'd like to congratulate you. You recently were awarded the People Manager of the Year in the Philippine HR Awards last year, 2022, by the International HR Institute.
I'm curious to know, what are the most important qualities that you believe a leader should possess? And how do you cultivate those qualities in yourself?
Denise Leynes
So being the People Manager of the Year is actually a big part of this group, It's the Philippines' top 30 leaders on LinkedIn. And that group actually defined what Filipino leadership is all about. It's all about integrity, malasakit (caring), courage, and resilience.
So I want to add one more to that, which is authenticity, which I think is very important. So I'm going to focus on that because I think we know how to practice and cultivate the other things. But when it comes to authenticity, it's a struggle for leaders to do that as well because sometimes we don't even know our identity as leaders, right?
So it's about being consistent and being loyal to who you are, even if not everyone's going to agree with you, especially when you're making hard decisions. So that's what I've been trying to follow. It's not an easy, straight path where, “Hey, this is the formula, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to be the most authentic person in the world.” But no, it's different every day, and you have to be conscious of it.
Paige Buan
I love that. Cool. So authenticity is so important. Self-awareness is also important. There's a lot of things that we're unpacking right now.
But based on your experience, what are the biggest challenges business leaders are facing today? And how can those challenges be addressed?
Denise Leynes
So right now, we're transitioning into a more hybrid setup for businesses, right? And I see a lot of leaders who are struggling because they see the value of asking their employees to go back to the office, but at the same time, they're also struggling with keeping their employees happy. So there is that medium, and finding out what works for your organization. I think a lot of discussions are happening. Some people adapted the back-to-office 100%, and it didn't work out. So they had to back out. And I think it's all about just knowing your organization, what works for your organization.
And it's hard, especially when we have a lot of new leaders here. We didn't even have enough time to sit down and think about what is their leadership all about and what do they believe in. And just having that formal structure first before making all these big decisions.
What I've learned, a lot of people are still learning as a leader, is that you should communicate and you should value that open communication with your employees because you might see things differently, and they might have a different perspective. And you don't always have to agree. But there's always that compromise in between wherein not everyone's going to win, but at least you feel like you heard them and they feel heard.
Paige Buan
Thank you for sharing that.
We have already determined the importance of continuous learning and development. Now, how do you impart that same kind of vision or goal to your team, especially for the modern workforce, with all the things that are happening right now? What's your advice in the take for the workforce today?
Denise Leynes
So the first thing is that we can't force people to continue learning. I've seen this happen in different organizations as well, wherein they require people, like, they give access to certain courses, and they require them to study something.
But I think my biggest advice is to understand why it's important, you know, share that, also do that. If you want them to learn, you should also consider learning, and sometimes you have to learn together.
So for example, here, currently at Equus, we're already in the process of planning to roll out our internal mentorship program, where you will have access to senior leaders. And you don't necessarily need to be working in the same org, but you can learn from them, and you can get valuable advice from them, and they can also learn from you. So it's all about doing it together, not forcing it, and understanding what you have to gain if you do it.
Paige Buan
I love that. Do you have specific strategies that you use to encourage and support your team, not forcing, so that your team members grow or develop the growth mindset?
Denise Leynes
Absolutely. So every start of the year, we usually just sit down and talk about different goals. And most of those goals are actually aligned to learning. So it's very easy for them to say, "Denise, this year, I want to be a certified project manager." And I would use that fact in every check-in. I would just say, "So what did you do since the last time we talked to progress that goal of yours?" And it's all about them owning it and me just holding them accountable. So we're still a team, but we're working together, and I want to make sure that it's actually their goal, not my goal for them.
Paige Buan
Fantastic. Yeah, it has to come from them. So there's also a sense of accountability and ownership for the goals that you set for yourself.
Can we talk about the approach to talent mobility within your organization and then the strategies that you use to identify and develop future leaders within your team?
Denise Leynes
Recently, we've been promoting our rotation opportunity a lot because there are a lot of young people who've been with us for a few years. If they're not sure about the next step in their careers, and we don't want them to make big drastic changes without understanding what that change would be for them. So we're offering a three-month rotation where they can experience doing a different role, working for a different team, different managers. And we're opening that opportunity instead of them driving that on their own and looking for other opportunities outside the organization. So just having that is very important.
And we also have different tools, like what I've said, so we have our weekly, monthly check-ins where we review what they're looking for at the moment. Are they looking for promotions? Because it's very common for people to think that way, that at a certain time, you need to get promoted, you need to be a manager. But not everyone wants that. And that's a big thing. Because if you promote someone who's just absolutely happy doing the technical stuff and not managing people, you might lose that person eventually because it's not their plan. They're not ready for that. And when it comes to making sure that our future leaders are ready, we have leadership development courses available. And we just have that transparency that you can raise your hand and say, "Hey, I want to explore this. I want to know the competencies in order for me to be a manager. Can you discuss that with me? And what do I need to do?" So we're open about those things.
Paige Buan
I love that. Yes, success definitely looks different for everyone. Some find it in the form of spending more time with their family, or some in the form of career progression. But it's also very important to know the difference between somebody else's goals and your own. Self-awareness, again, kicks in there.
Do you have tips for people, if they know that they have to change something, but there are so many resources out there, where do they start? Aside from knowing their ikigai and stuff like that, a good place to start, I guess, would be learning courses or coaching. But I'm curious to know your thoughts. If they decide to, "Okay. I need to know the next step."
Denise Leynes
Yeah, I mean, Paige, that's a good point because it's very overwhelming. If you focus on online learning, how many platforms are available at the moment, and some of them are even free.
So I would really expect people to have that vision. For example, if you want to be a PM and I see someone who's already a good PM, and check the courses they took and you can even approach them and say, "Hey, I read that you did this. I want to know more about your experience. Can you please let me know?"
And I get this message like this a lot on LinkedIn, and I also reach out to other people who are doing the same thing. And that's absolutely fine. Having that background, having that insight of what to expect is very important, and not just blindly taking on something that you don't know what it's going to look like eventually.
Paige Buan
Thank you so much, Denise. Any final thoughts on the importance of pursuing continuous learning or any other topic that we haven't quite covered, right, in this episode?
Denise Leynes
So I think it was last year, I attended this soiree for Women of the World in the Philippines and told everyone that I had a "Yes" year whereinI said "yes" to everything that scared me and everything that I thought would progress my career.
When we hear about success, people would always say, "Leave your comfort zone. Success is on the other side of that." And for women and for leaders, sometimes we can't afford that. That’s very expensive. Leaving your comfort zone would mean probably sacrificing your time, sacrificing your resources, sacrificing your family, and all that. But what I normally say to people who are starting out their journey when it comes to studying and journey when it comes to exploring themselves, is to just take a step further, make sure your comfort zone is bigger.
And I also would like to encourage everyone that if you have the resources and if you want to give back, there are so many ways of doing so. Share your voice, making sure that your strategies are out there, and just be generous because I think everyone's going to learn from you, just like you have also learned from other people as well.
Paige Buan
Fantastic. And I'm sure our listeners would love to learn more about you. Please invite them or where they can go to learn more.
Denise Leynes
So there are a few things that I want to plug. First, if you want to learn more about me, follow me on LinkedIn.
And I also want to share that for people who are interested to develop their leadership careers and also have access to mentors, it’s an NGO. I’m a volunteer for "WEDO GLOBAL." You can be a rising star. You can get coaches from all over the world. You can also be a mentor if you feel ready to give back to the community for Southeast Asian women.
And also for Women of the World, we're going to come up with a scholarship program or a coaching program for anyone who’s deserving. So that’s going to be something that we’re rolling out in the next few months, but absolutely, you'll be hearing more from me about that.
Paige Buan
That's exciting. I'm definitely going to look out for that one. Well, thank you so much, Denise, for being on the Leader Unlocked Podcast. Thank you for sharing all your stories. It's very inspiring. To our listeners, thank you for listening to this episode.